ابو بيشو
28-02-2010, 08:53 PM
اليكم تلك الاسئله الرائعه
اليكم منى كل احترام وتقدير شكرا
cocoricot (javascript:void(0))
Member
[/URL]
Posts: 2047 (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=5431045414)
(http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/340600179/m/608100063?r=608100063#608100063)Posted February 25, 2010 04:23 AM (javascript:void(0);) (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=ma&m=608100063&t=608100063&f=340600179)
Dear teachers,
"Some earthworms grow to a very large size five or six feet in most of them are a little inches long."
Please tell me three points:
1. "a little" cannot be placed before "inches". It should be before "long" -> a little long.
2. There should be a commas before "most of them"
3. Is "in" necessary or redundant?
Thanks.
Okaasan, Contributor (javascript:void(0))
Member
Location: Egypt
(http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=937108741)
Posts: 471 (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=937108741)
(http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/340600179/m/608100063?r=343103063#343103063)Posted February 25, 2010 08:12 AM (javascript:void(0);) (javascript:void(0);) (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=ma&m=343103063&t=608100063&f=340600179)
1. "a little long" won't work here either. You would use that to mean "a little too long." For example a dress is a little (too) long if it touches the floor. You can say a few inches long.
2. You need a period or a semicolon here, not a comma. You can use a comma if you put but in the sentence.
3. In here is wrong.
But I'm a little uncomfortable with "most of them" because the reader might think at first it refers to some earthworms that are very big. I've also played with the punctuation a bit:
Some earthworms grow to a very large size, as much as five or six feet, but most earthworms are a few inches long.
Hope that helps.
Okaasan -- who can't stand any earthworms
Hello,
I am moving to other country. The logistic company's worker dropped by to give me those cartons where I have to put my things in.
Please tell me which one is correct.
1. He wanted to see me to give me the boxes I need to put my things in it for shipment.
2. He wanted to see me because he had to give me the boxes I need to put my things in for shipment.
Thanks a lot.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: iwtk (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/personal?x_myspace_page=profile&u=3561095674), February 25, 2010 03:49 AM
Mehrdad, Contributor (javascript:void(0))
Member
Location: Tehran, Iran
(http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=43410995)
Posts: 886 (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=43410995)
(http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/340600179/m/267100063?r=903103063#903103063)Posted February 25, 2010 08:04 AM (javascript:void(0);) (javascript:void(0);) (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=ma&m=903103063&t=267100063&f=340600179)
quote:
1. He wanted to see me to give me the boxes I need to put my things in it for shipment.
Delete "it," and the sentence will be OK.
quote:
2. He wanted to see me because he had to give me the boxes I need to put my things in for shipment.
This sentence is already OK.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: Mehrdad, Contributor (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/personal?x_myspace_page=profile&u=43410995), February 25, 2010 08:05 AM
Ignored post by Mehrdad, Contributor (javascript:void(0)) posted February 25, 2010 08:04 AM
Show Post (javascript:void(0);)
Rachel, Moderator (javascript:void(0))
Member
Posts: 15998 (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=6786086852)
(http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/340600179/m/267100063?r=645103063#645103063)Posted February 25, 2010 09:01 AM (javascript:void(0);) (javascript:void(0);) (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=ma&m=645103063&t=267100063&f=340600179)
quote:
He wanted to see me to give me the boxes I need to put my things in for shipment.
Mehrdad's sentences are fine, but we can condense this sentence, too, if we want:
(http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/340600179/m/903107953?r=903107953#903107953)Posted February 24, 2010 04:59 PM (javascript:void(0);) (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=ma&m=903107953&t=903107953&f=340600179)
Which is correct?
He is sweeping dried leaves / dry leaves.
Amy, Honorary Moderator (javascript:void(0))
Member
Location: USA
(http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=9281039554)
Posts: 363 (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=9281039554)
(http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/340600179/m/903107953?r=364108953#364108953)Posted February 24, 2010 07:12 PM (javascript:void(0);) (javascript:void(0);) (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=ma&m=364108953&t=903107953&f=340600179)
Hi bear_bear
Look at the picture in this link:
leaves (http://www.grandvictorianlodge.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/raking-leaves.jpg)
If that is the sort of activity you are referring to, then I would suggest saying this:
- He is raking leaves.
Ignored post by Amy, Honorary Moderator (javascript:void(0)) posted February 24, 2010 07:12 PM
Show Post (javascript:void(0);)
iwtk (javascript:void(0))
Member
Posts: 721 (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=3561095674)
(http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/340600179/m/903107953?r=910103063#910103063)Posted February 25, 2010 06:44 AM (javascript:void(0);) (javascript:void(0);) (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=ma&m=910103063&t=903107953&f=340600179)
Hi, Amy and bear, please let me jump in.
When I use a broom to clean my yard from the fallen leaves. Can I say;
I am sweeping my yard.
Thank you so much,
Ignored post by iwtk (javascript:void(0)) posted February 25, 2010 06:44 AM
Show Post (javascript:void(0);)
Okaasan, Contributor (javascript:void(0))
Member
Location: Egypt
(http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=937108741)
Posts: 472 (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=937108741)
(http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/340600179/m/903107953?r=290103063#290103063)Posted February 25, 2010 07:15 AM (javascript:void(0);) (javascript:void(0);) (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=ma&m=290103063&t=903107953&f=340600179)
Nice photo, Amy!
But of course, if you are using a broom and cleaning the leaves from a sidewalk, you would be sweeping. If you are really using a broom for your yard, iwtk, you can say "sweeping" -- but it is much easier to use a rake on grass!
As for dry or dried leaves, use dry leaves. That would mean that they are dead and dry from the wind or whatever.
Dried leaves would be leaves that a person picked (from the tree or the ground) and put somewhere to dry in order to preserve them for later, such as we do with leaves we use in cooking.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: Okaasan, Contributor (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/personal?x_myspace_page=profile&u=937108741), February 25, 2010 07:17 AM
Ignored post by Okaasan, Contributor (javascript:void(0)) posted February 25, 2010 07:15 AM
Show Post (javascript:void(0);)
Rachel, Moderator (javascript:void(0))
Member
Posts: 15999 (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=6786086852)
(http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/340600179/m/903107953?r=795103063#795103063)Posted February 25, 2010 09:11 AM (javascript:void(0);) (javascript:void(0);) (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=ma&m=795103063&t=903107953&f=340600179)
The examples that Amy and Okaasan give are just right.
I'd like to add these comments: 'Dried leaves' can be a display of autumn leaves, saved and put into a vase because of their beautiful colors.
We would say 'dry leaves' in a sentence like this:
· In some communities, it's against the law to burn dry leaves because the fumes pollute the air, and there is also the danger of spreading fire.
_______
It seems that 'dried leaves' are leaves that someone has dried on purpose, whereas 'dry leaves' are leaves that have become naturally dry through the process of nature.
Vincent's original sentence doesn't need any form of 'dry,' as Amy has shown us.
(http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/340600179/m/123107953?r=123107953#123107953)Posted February 24, 2010 05:01 PM (javascript:void(0);) (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=ma&m=123107953&t=123107953&f=340600179)
an I say,
The teacher is teaching in class / in the class/ in the classroom.
Amy, Honorary Moderator (javascript:void(0))
Member
Location: USA
(http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=9281039554)
Posts: 363 (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=9281039554)
(http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/340600179/m/123107953?r=254108953#254108953)Posted February 24, 2010 07:09 PM (javascript:void(0);) (javascript:void(0);) (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=ma&m=254108953&t=123107953&f=340600179)
Hi bear_bear
In theory, you can say any of those. I'm just not sure why (or in what sort of context) you might actually want to.
Ignored post by Amy, Honorary Moderator (javascript:void(0)) posted February 24, 2010 07:09 PM
Show Post (javascript:void(0);)
bear_bear (javascript:void(0))
Member
Posts: 4313 (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=9671079683)
(http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/340600179/m/123107953?r=578101063#578101063)Posted February 25, 2010 05:39 AM (javascript:void(0);) (javascript:void(0);) (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=ma&m=578101063&t=123107953&f=340600179)
So, mind to tell me in what kind of situations we will use "in class" or "in the classroom"? thanks!!
Ignored post by bear_bear (javascript:void(0)) posted February 25, 2010 05:39 AM
Show Post (javascript:void(0);)
Okaasan, Contributor (javascript:void(0))
Member
Location: Egypt
(http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=937108741)
Posts: 472 (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=937108741)
(http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/340600179/m/123107953?r=302103063#302103063)Posted February 25, 2010 07:50 AM (javascript:void(0);) (javascript:void(0);) (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=ma&m=302103063&t=123107953&f=340600179)
I think that what Amy is saying is that it's a bit odd to say the teacher is teaching in class/the class/the classroom. That's where you expect the teacher to be teaching.
(The) class can refer not only to the room itself, but also to the students or even to the content of what is being taught: a biology class.
A: Where's the teacher?
B: He's in class. He's teaching now.
A: Where's the teacher?
B: He's in the class. He's in the room, not necessarily teaching. Actually, I find this sentence odd unless you say something like "He's in the science class" -- he's in the room where science is being taught and probably he's the one teaching it. I think this sentence would be better in a bit different context:
A: Where's the teacher? He's supposed to be teaching science.
B: He's in the class now. He's in the expected class, so that's why there is now a definite article.
A: Where's the teacher?
B: He's in the classroom. He's in that room. There may or may not be students there. He might not be teaching. Probably he isn't teaching because if he were, I'd be more likely to just say "He's in class."
This message has been edited. Last edited by: Okaasan, Contributor (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/personal?x_myspace_page=profile&u=937108741), February 25, 2010 07:52 AM
Hi teachers,
Please correct the following sentence.
Some say she is a good singer, but I think her voice has no feel / feelings.
Thank you.
Prashobhini
This message has been edited. Last edited by: Prashobhini (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/personal?x_myspace_page=profile&u=4011027704), February 24, 2010 07:49 AM
Amy, Honorary Moderator (javascript:void(0))
Member
Location: USA
(http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=9281039554)
Posts: 363 (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=9281039554)
(http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/340600179/m/321104953?r=381104953#381104953)Posted February 24, 2010 07:55 AM (javascript:void(0);) (javascript:void(0);) (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=ma&m=381104953&t=321104953&f=340600179)
Hi Prashobhini
I would not use either "feel" or "feelings" in the sentence. However, you could possibly use "feeling".
Ignored post by Amy, Honorary Moderator (javascript:void(0)) posted February 24, 2010 07:55 AM
Show Post (javascript:void(0);)
Prashobhini (javascript:void(0))
Member
Posts: 74 (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=4011027704)
(http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/340600179/m/321104953?r=586105063#586105063)Posted February 25, 2010 03:17 PM (javascript:void(0);) (javascript:void(0);) (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=ma&m=586105063&t=321104953&f=340600179)
Thank you Amy.
Which is correct?
(i) Mr / Mr. Lim
(ii) Ms. / Ms Tan
Amy, Honorary Moderator (javascript:void(0))
Member
Location: USA
(http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=9281039554)
Posts: 365 (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=9281039554)
(http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/340600179/m/752107953?r=905108953#905108953)Posted February 24, 2010 07:17 PM (javascript:void(0);) (javascript:void(0);) (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=ma&m=905108953&t=752107953&f=340600179)
Hi bear_bear
In the US, we still generally use a period with Mr. and Mrs..
In the UK, they seem to have stopped using the period.
Punctuation is not used with Ms since it is not actually an abbreviation.
Ignored post by Amy, Honorary Moderator (javascript:void(0)) posted February 24, 2010 07:17 PM
Show Post (javascript:void(0);)
Izzy loves you all (javascript:void(0))
Member
Location: Saudi Arabia
(http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=5201001254)
Posts: 4289 (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=5201001254)
(http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/340600179/m/752107953?r=137100063#137100063)Posted February 25, 2010 03:13 AM (javascript:void(0);) (javascript:void(0);) (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=ma&m=137100063&t=752107953&f=340600179)
quote:
Punctuation is not used with Ms since it is not actually an abbreviation.
If Ms is not an abbreviation, what is it then?
Izzy loves you all
Ignored post by Izzy loves you all (javascript:void(0)) posted February 25, 2010 03:13 AM
Show Post (javascript:void(0);)
GrammarFan (javascript:void(0))
Member
Posts: 131 (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=483106913)
(http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/340600179/m/752107953?r=168101063#168101063)Posted February 25, 2010 05:27 AM (javascript:void(0);) (javascript:void(0);) (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=ma&m=168101063&t=752107953&f=340600179)
A RESPECTFUL QUESTION. Perhaps I misunderstood, but I have always been led to believe that "Ms." does carry a period. I have three stylebooks (from the 1990's), and they all call for a period. May I have clarification, please? Thank you.
Ignored post by GrammarFan (javascript:void(0)) posted February 25, 2010 05:27 AM
Show Post (javascript:void(0);)
Okaasan, Contributor (javascript:void(0))
Member
Location: Egypt
(http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=937108741)
Posts: 472 (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=937108741)
(http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/340600179/m/752107953?r=762103063#762103063)Posted February 25, 2010 08:00 AM (javascript:void(0);) (javascript:void(0);) (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=ma&m=762103063&t=752107953&f=340600179)
Garner's Modern American Usage (p 532) says that Mr. and Mrs. are considered abbreviations, so in AmE they take periods. Ms. is a blend of Mrs. and Miss. It is not defined as an abbreviation or contraction, but it is written with a period anyway to conform with the style of Mr. and Mrs.
In BrE, contracted abbreviations (in which letters are deleted from the middle of the word) do not take periods, so these three are written without periods in BrE.
Ignored post by Okaasan, Contributor (javascript:void(0)) posted February 25, 2010 08:00 AM
Show Post (javascript:void(0);)
GrammarFan (javascript:void(0))
Member
Posts: 131 (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=483106913)
(http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/340600179/m/752107953?r=686103063#686103063)Posted February 25, 2010 09:28 AM (javascript:void(0);) (javascript:void(0);) (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=ma&m=686103063&t=752107953&f=340600179)
Thank you for the clarification.
Ignored post by GrammarFan (javascript:void(0)) posted February 25, 2010 09:28 AM
Show Post (javascript:void(0);)
Mehrdad, Contributor (javascript:void(0))
Member
Location: Tehran, Iran
(http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=43410995)
Posts: 894 (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=43410995)
(http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/340600179/m/752107953?r=453105063#453105063)Posted February 25, 2010 02:27 PM (javascript:void(0);) (javascript:void(0);) (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=ma&m=453105063&t=752107953&f=340600179)
Nearly all emails I've ever received from the UK do not include a comma or a colon after Dear .... I've always assumed there's a BrE vs. AmE preference at work there, but I've seen Amy (an AmE speaker) use no punctuation in her Hi ... as well. This makes me doubt my presumption. What do you think?
Ignored post by Mehrdad, Contributor (javascript:void(0)) posted February 25, 2010 02:27 PM
Show Post (javascript:void(0);)
Amy, Honorary Moderator (javascript:void(0))
Member
Location: USA
(http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=9281039554)
Posts: 365 (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=9281039554)
(http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/340600179/m/752107953?r=693106063#693106063)Posted February 25, 2010 05:10 PM (javascript:void(0);) (javascript:void(0);) (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=ma&m=693106063&t=752107953&f=340600179)
I'd use punctuation after the greeting in a formal letter, Mehrdad.
When I write more informally, I generally omit it. That's my personal style in informal writing. Many Americans do the same thing, but many still use a comma after the greeting when writing informally.
I have to admit, I have NEVER used a period after "Ms", though -- not even when I was attempting to be formal. lol
This message has been edited. Last edited by: Amy, Honorary Moderator (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/personal?x_myspace_page=profile&u=9281039554), February 25, 2010 05:11 PM
Ignored post by Amy, Honorary Moderator (javascript:void(0)) posted February 25, 2010 05:10 PM
Show Post (javascript:void(0);)
Hi
Do you think all the three sentences are acceptable?
(1) We hung the portraits on the wall.
(2) We looked at the portraits on the wall.
(3) We had a family room with the portraits on the wall.
Thank you in advance
Seiichi MYOGA
What I am struggling to do is come up with a triplet of sentences in which "on the wall" behaves differently. I have a couple of things to ask if they work.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: Seiichi Myoga (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/personal?x_myspace_page=profile&u=249101991), February 24, 2010 03:59 AM
Amy, Honorary Moderator (javascript:void(0))
Member
Location: USA
(http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=9281039554)
Posts: 369 (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=9281039554)
(http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/340600179/m/256102953?r=322104953#322104953)Posted February 24, 2010 08:01 AM (javascript:void(0);) (javascript:void(0);) (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=ma&m=322104953&t=256102953&f=340600179)
Hi Seiichi
I would use just "portraits" (rather than "the portraits") in sentence 3. Otherwise, the sentences seem fine to me.
Ignored post by Amy, Honorary Moderator (javascript:void(0)) posted February 24, 2010 08:01 AM
Show Post (javascript:void(0);)
Okaasan, Contributor (javascript:void(0))
Member
Location: Egypt
(http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=937108741)
Posts: 472 (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=937108741)
(http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/340600179/m/256102953?r=958105953#958105953)Posted February 24, 2010 12:54 PM (javascript:void(0);) (javascript:void(0);) (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=ma&m=958105953&t=256102953&f=340600179)
That's exactly what I was going to say, Amy, about "the" in sentence 3.
I don't see any difference with "on the wall."
This message has been edited. Last edited by: Okaasan, Contributor (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/personal?x_myspace_page=profile&u=937108741), February 24, 2010 12:54 PM
Ignored post by Okaasan, Contributor (javascript:void(0)) posted February 24, 2010 12:54 PM
Show Post (javascript:void(0);)
Mehrdad, Contributor (javascript:void(0))
Member
Location: Tehran, Iran
(http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=43410995)
Posts: 896 (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=43410995)
(http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/340600179/m/256102953?r=796107953#796107953)Posted February 24, 2010 05:50 PM (javascript:void(0);) (javascript:void(0);) (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=ma&m=796107953&t=256102953&f=340600179)
The differences are:
(1) Here "on the wall" is acting as an adverb.
(2) Here "on the wall" is modifying "the portraits," so it's got a rather adjectival role.
(3) Here "on the wall" is part of a prepositional phrase ("with portraits on the wall"). It is this phrase that modifies "room." I find "on the wall" in (3) very close to the one in (2).
Ignored post by Mehrdad, Contributor (javascript:void(0)) posted February 24, 2010 05:50 PM
Show Post (javascript:void(0);)
Seiichi Myoga (javascript:void(0))
Member
[URL="http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=249101991"]Posts: 94 (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=249101991)
(http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/340600179/m/256102953?r=695100063#695100063)Posted February 25, 2010 01:38 AM (javascript:void(0);) (javascript:void(0);) (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=ma&m=695100063&t=256102953&f=340600179)
Dear all,
I appreciate your help and comments.
quote:
(1) We hung the portraits on the wall.
(2) We looked at the portraits on the wall.
(4) We had a family room with portraits on the wall.
All the three have something in common: the entailment (the logical conclusion you could draw) is "(The) portraits were on the wall."
I have two questions to ask.
The first is about (2) and (4).
I think (2) and (4) mean the same as (5a) and (5b) respectively, both of which have "hanging" inserted in between "portraits" and "on."
(5) a. We looked at the portraits hanging on the wall.
b. We had a family room with portraits hanging on the wall.
#1 Am I right?
The second one relates to (2).
I think there is no significant difference in meaning between (2) and (6).
(6) We looked at the portraits that were on the wall.
#2 Am I right on the track?
Thank you in advance
Seiichi MYOGA
This message has been edited. Last edited by: Seiichi Myoga (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/personal?x_myspace_page=profile&u=249101991), February 25, 2010 01:45 AM
Ignored post by Seiichi Myoga (javascript:void(0)) posted February 25, 2010 01:38 AM
Show Post (javascript:void(0);)
Okaasan, Contributor (javascript:void(0))
Member
Location: Egypt
(http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=937108741)
Posts: 472 (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=937108741)
(http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/340600179/m/256102953?r=253103063#253103063)Posted February 25, 2010 08:16 AM (javascript:void(0);) (javascript:void(0);) (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=ma&m=253103063&t=256102953&f=340600179)
Thanks, Mehrdad, for clarifying about the differences. I was thinking about meaning -- and I guess not very deeply.
Seiichi, I think you're right about #1 and #2.
اليكم منى كل احترام وتقدير شكرا
cocoricot (javascript:void(0))
Member
[/URL]
Posts: 2047 (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=5431045414)
(http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/340600179/m/608100063?r=608100063#608100063)Posted February 25, 2010 04:23 AM (javascript:void(0);) (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=ma&m=608100063&t=608100063&f=340600179)
Dear teachers,
"Some earthworms grow to a very large size five or six feet in most of them are a little inches long."
Please tell me three points:
1. "a little" cannot be placed before "inches". It should be before "long" -> a little long.
2. There should be a commas before "most of them"
3. Is "in" necessary or redundant?
Thanks.
Okaasan, Contributor (javascript:void(0))
Member
Location: Egypt
(http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=937108741)
Posts: 471 (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=937108741)
(http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/340600179/m/608100063?r=343103063#343103063)Posted February 25, 2010 08:12 AM (javascript:void(0);) (javascript:void(0);) (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=ma&m=343103063&t=608100063&f=340600179)
1. "a little long" won't work here either. You would use that to mean "a little too long." For example a dress is a little (too) long if it touches the floor. You can say a few inches long.
2. You need a period or a semicolon here, not a comma. You can use a comma if you put but in the sentence.
3. In here is wrong.
But I'm a little uncomfortable with "most of them" because the reader might think at first it refers to some earthworms that are very big. I've also played with the punctuation a bit:
Some earthworms grow to a very large size, as much as five or six feet, but most earthworms are a few inches long.
Hope that helps.
Okaasan -- who can't stand any earthworms
Hello,
I am moving to other country. The logistic company's worker dropped by to give me those cartons where I have to put my things in.
Please tell me which one is correct.
1. He wanted to see me to give me the boxes I need to put my things in it for shipment.
2. He wanted to see me because he had to give me the boxes I need to put my things in for shipment.
Thanks a lot.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: iwtk (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/personal?x_myspace_page=profile&u=3561095674), February 25, 2010 03:49 AM
Mehrdad, Contributor (javascript:void(0))
Member
Location: Tehran, Iran
(http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=43410995)
Posts: 886 (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=43410995)
(http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/340600179/m/267100063?r=903103063#903103063)Posted February 25, 2010 08:04 AM (javascript:void(0);) (javascript:void(0);) (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=ma&m=903103063&t=267100063&f=340600179)
quote:
1. He wanted to see me to give me the boxes I need to put my things in it for shipment.
Delete "it," and the sentence will be OK.
quote:
2. He wanted to see me because he had to give me the boxes I need to put my things in for shipment.
This sentence is already OK.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: Mehrdad, Contributor (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/personal?x_myspace_page=profile&u=43410995), February 25, 2010 08:05 AM
Ignored post by Mehrdad, Contributor (javascript:void(0)) posted February 25, 2010 08:04 AM
Show Post (javascript:void(0);)
Rachel, Moderator (javascript:void(0))
Member
Posts: 15998 (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=6786086852)
(http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/340600179/m/267100063?r=645103063#645103063)Posted February 25, 2010 09:01 AM (javascript:void(0);) (javascript:void(0);) (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=ma&m=645103063&t=267100063&f=340600179)
quote:
He wanted to see me to give me the boxes I need to put my things in for shipment.
Mehrdad's sentences are fine, but we can condense this sentence, too, if we want:
(http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/340600179/m/903107953?r=903107953#903107953)Posted February 24, 2010 04:59 PM (javascript:void(0);) (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=ma&m=903107953&t=903107953&f=340600179)
Which is correct?
He is sweeping dried leaves / dry leaves.
Amy, Honorary Moderator (javascript:void(0))
Member
Location: USA
(http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=9281039554)
Posts: 363 (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=9281039554)
(http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/340600179/m/903107953?r=364108953#364108953)Posted February 24, 2010 07:12 PM (javascript:void(0);) (javascript:void(0);) (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=ma&m=364108953&t=903107953&f=340600179)
Hi bear_bear
Look at the picture in this link:
leaves (http://www.grandvictorianlodge.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/raking-leaves.jpg)
If that is the sort of activity you are referring to, then I would suggest saying this:
- He is raking leaves.
Ignored post by Amy, Honorary Moderator (javascript:void(0)) posted February 24, 2010 07:12 PM
Show Post (javascript:void(0);)
iwtk (javascript:void(0))
Member
Posts: 721 (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=3561095674)
(http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/340600179/m/903107953?r=910103063#910103063)Posted February 25, 2010 06:44 AM (javascript:void(0);) (javascript:void(0);) (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=ma&m=910103063&t=903107953&f=340600179)
Hi, Amy and bear, please let me jump in.
When I use a broom to clean my yard from the fallen leaves. Can I say;
I am sweeping my yard.
Thank you so much,
Ignored post by iwtk (javascript:void(0)) posted February 25, 2010 06:44 AM
Show Post (javascript:void(0);)
Okaasan, Contributor (javascript:void(0))
Member
Location: Egypt
(http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=937108741)
Posts: 472 (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=937108741)
(http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/340600179/m/903107953?r=290103063#290103063)Posted February 25, 2010 07:15 AM (javascript:void(0);) (javascript:void(0);) (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=ma&m=290103063&t=903107953&f=340600179)
Nice photo, Amy!
But of course, if you are using a broom and cleaning the leaves from a sidewalk, you would be sweeping. If you are really using a broom for your yard, iwtk, you can say "sweeping" -- but it is much easier to use a rake on grass!
As for dry or dried leaves, use dry leaves. That would mean that they are dead and dry from the wind or whatever.
Dried leaves would be leaves that a person picked (from the tree or the ground) and put somewhere to dry in order to preserve them for later, such as we do with leaves we use in cooking.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: Okaasan, Contributor (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/personal?x_myspace_page=profile&u=937108741), February 25, 2010 07:17 AM
Ignored post by Okaasan, Contributor (javascript:void(0)) posted February 25, 2010 07:15 AM
Show Post (javascript:void(0);)
Rachel, Moderator (javascript:void(0))
Member
Posts: 15999 (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=6786086852)
(http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/340600179/m/903107953?r=795103063#795103063)Posted February 25, 2010 09:11 AM (javascript:void(0);) (javascript:void(0);) (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=ma&m=795103063&t=903107953&f=340600179)
The examples that Amy and Okaasan give are just right.
I'd like to add these comments: 'Dried leaves' can be a display of autumn leaves, saved and put into a vase because of their beautiful colors.
We would say 'dry leaves' in a sentence like this:
· In some communities, it's against the law to burn dry leaves because the fumes pollute the air, and there is also the danger of spreading fire.
_______
It seems that 'dried leaves' are leaves that someone has dried on purpose, whereas 'dry leaves' are leaves that have become naturally dry through the process of nature.
Vincent's original sentence doesn't need any form of 'dry,' as Amy has shown us.
(http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/340600179/m/123107953?r=123107953#123107953)Posted February 24, 2010 05:01 PM (javascript:void(0);) (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=ma&m=123107953&t=123107953&f=340600179)
an I say,
The teacher is teaching in class / in the class/ in the classroom.
Amy, Honorary Moderator (javascript:void(0))
Member
Location: USA
(http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=9281039554)
Posts: 363 (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=9281039554)
(http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/340600179/m/123107953?r=254108953#254108953)Posted February 24, 2010 07:09 PM (javascript:void(0);) (javascript:void(0);) (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=ma&m=254108953&t=123107953&f=340600179)
Hi bear_bear
In theory, you can say any of those. I'm just not sure why (or in what sort of context) you might actually want to.
Ignored post by Amy, Honorary Moderator (javascript:void(0)) posted February 24, 2010 07:09 PM
Show Post (javascript:void(0);)
bear_bear (javascript:void(0))
Member
Posts: 4313 (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=9671079683)
(http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/340600179/m/123107953?r=578101063#578101063)Posted February 25, 2010 05:39 AM (javascript:void(0);) (javascript:void(0);) (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=ma&m=578101063&t=123107953&f=340600179)
So, mind to tell me in what kind of situations we will use "in class" or "in the classroom"? thanks!!
Ignored post by bear_bear (javascript:void(0)) posted February 25, 2010 05:39 AM
Show Post (javascript:void(0);)
Okaasan, Contributor (javascript:void(0))
Member
Location: Egypt
(http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=937108741)
Posts: 472 (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=937108741)
(http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/340600179/m/123107953?r=302103063#302103063)Posted February 25, 2010 07:50 AM (javascript:void(0);) (javascript:void(0);) (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=ma&m=302103063&t=123107953&f=340600179)
I think that what Amy is saying is that it's a bit odd to say the teacher is teaching in class/the class/the classroom. That's where you expect the teacher to be teaching.
(The) class can refer not only to the room itself, but also to the students or even to the content of what is being taught: a biology class.
A: Where's the teacher?
B: He's in class. He's teaching now.
A: Where's the teacher?
B: He's in the class. He's in the room, not necessarily teaching. Actually, I find this sentence odd unless you say something like "He's in the science class" -- he's in the room where science is being taught and probably he's the one teaching it. I think this sentence would be better in a bit different context:
A: Where's the teacher? He's supposed to be teaching science.
B: He's in the class now. He's in the expected class, so that's why there is now a definite article.
A: Where's the teacher?
B: He's in the classroom. He's in that room. There may or may not be students there. He might not be teaching. Probably he isn't teaching because if he were, I'd be more likely to just say "He's in class."
This message has been edited. Last edited by: Okaasan, Contributor (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/personal?x_myspace_page=profile&u=937108741), February 25, 2010 07:52 AM
Hi teachers,
Please correct the following sentence.
Some say she is a good singer, but I think her voice has no feel / feelings.
Thank you.
Prashobhini
This message has been edited. Last edited by: Prashobhini (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/personal?x_myspace_page=profile&u=4011027704), February 24, 2010 07:49 AM
Amy, Honorary Moderator (javascript:void(0))
Member
Location: USA
(http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=9281039554)
Posts: 363 (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=9281039554)
(http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/340600179/m/321104953?r=381104953#381104953)Posted February 24, 2010 07:55 AM (javascript:void(0);) (javascript:void(0);) (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=ma&m=381104953&t=321104953&f=340600179)
Hi Prashobhini
I would not use either "feel" or "feelings" in the sentence. However, you could possibly use "feeling".
Ignored post by Amy, Honorary Moderator (javascript:void(0)) posted February 24, 2010 07:55 AM
Show Post (javascript:void(0);)
Prashobhini (javascript:void(0))
Member
Posts: 74 (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=4011027704)
(http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/340600179/m/321104953?r=586105063#586105063)Posted February 25, 2010 03:17 PM (javascript:void(0);) (javascript:void(0);) (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=ma&m=586105063&t=321104953&f=340600179)
Thank you Amy.
Which is correct?
(i) Mr / Mr. Lim
(ii) Ms. / Ms Tan
Amy, Honorary Moderator (javascript:void(0))
Member
Location: USA
(http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=9281039554)
Posts: 365 (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=9281039554)
(http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/340600179/m/752107953?r=905108953#905108953)Posted February 24, 2010 07:17 PM (javascript:void(0);) (javascript:void(0);) (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=ma&m=905108953&t=752107953&f=340600179)
Hi bear_bear
In the US, we still generally use a period with Mr. and Mrs..
In the UK, they seem to have stopped using the period.
Punctuation is not used with Ms since it is not actually an abbreviation.
Ignored post by Amy, Honorary Moderator (javascript:void(0)) posted February 24, 2010 07:17 PM
Show Post (javascript:void(0);)
Izzy loves you all (javascript:void(0))
Member
Location: Saudi Arabia
(http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=5201001254)
Posts: 4289 (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=5201001254)
(http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/340600179/m/752107953?r=137100063#137100063)Posted February 25, 2010 03:13 AM (javascript:void(0);) (javascript:void(0);) (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=ma&m=137100063&t=752107953&f=340600179)
quote:
Punctuation is not used with Ms since it is not actually an abbreviation.
If Ms is not an abbreviation, what is it then?
Izzy loves you all
Ignored post by Izzy loves you all (javascript:void(0)) posted February 25, 2010 03:13 AM
Show Post (javascript:void(0);)
GrammarFan (javascript:void(0))
Member
Posts: 131 (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=483106913)
(http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/340600179/m/752107953?r=168101063#168101063)Posted February 25, 2010 05:27 AM (javascript:void(0);) (javascript:void(0);) (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=ma&m=168101063&t=752107953&f=340600179)
A RESPECTFUL QUESTION. Perhaps I misunderstood, but I have always been led to believe that "Ms." does carry a period. I have three stylebooks (from the 1990's), and they all call for a period. May I have clarification, please? Thank you.
Ignored post by GrammarFan (javascript:void(0)) posted February 25, 2010 05:27 AM
Show Post (javascript:void(0);)
Okaasan, Contributor (javascript:void(0))
Member
Location: Egypt
(http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=937108741)
Posts: 472 (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=937108741)
(http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/340600179/m/752107953?r=762103063#762103063)Posted February 25, 2010 08:00 AM (javascript:void(0);) (javascript:void(0);) (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=ma&m=762103063&t=752107953&f=340600179)
Garner's Modern American Usage (p 532) says that Mr. and Mrs. are considered abbreviations, so in AmE they take periods. Ms. is a blend of Mrs. and Miss. It is not defined as an abbreviation or contraction, but it is written with a period anyway to conform with the style of Mr. and Mrs.
In BrE, contracted abbreviations (in which letters are deleted from the middle of the word) do not take periods, so these three are written without periods in BrE.
Ignored post by Okaasan, Contributor (javascript:void(0)) posted February 25, 2010 08:00 AM
Show Post (javascript:void(0);)
GrammarFan (javascript:void(0))
Member
Posts: 131 (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=483106913)
(http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/340600179/m/752107953?r=686103063#686103063)Posted February 25, 2010 09:28 AM (javascript:void(0);) (javascript:void(0);) (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=ma&m=686103063&t=752107953&f=340600179)
Thank you for the clarification.
Ignored post by GrammarFan (javascript:void(0)) posted February 25, 2010 09:28 AM
Show Post (javascript:void(0);)
Mehrdad, Contributor (javascript:void(0))
Member
Location: Tehran, Iran
(http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=43410995)
Posts: 894 (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=43410995)
(http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/340600179/m/752107953?r=453105063#453105063)Posted February 25, 2010 02:27 PM (javascript:void(0);) (javascript:void(0);) (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=ma&m=453105063&t=752107953&f=340600179)
Nearly all emails I've ever received from the UK do not include a comma or a colon after Dear .... I've always assumed there's a BrE vs. AmE preference at work there, but I've seen Amy (an AmE speaker) use no punctuation in her Hi ... as well. This makes me doubt my presumption. What do you think?
Ignored post by Mehrdad, Contributor (javascript:void(0)) posted February 25, 2010 02:27 PM
Show Post (javascript:void(0);)
Amy, Honorary Moderator (javascript:void(0))
Member
Location: USA
(http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=9281039554)
Posts: 365 (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=9281039554)
(http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/340600179/m/752107953?r=693106063#693106063)Posted February 25, 2010 05:10 PM (javascript:void(0);) (javascript:void(0);) (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=ma&m=693106063&t=752107953&f=340600179)
I'd use punctuation after the greeting in a formal letter, Mehrdad.
When I write more informally, I generally omit it. That's my personal style in informal writing. Many Americans do the same thing, but many still use a comma after the greeting when writing informally.
I have to admit, I have NEVER used a period after "Ms", though -- not even when I was attempting to be formal. lol
This message has been edited. Last edited by: Amy, Honorary Moderator (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/personal?x_myspace_page=profile&u=9281039554), February 25, 2010 05:11 PM
Ignored post by Amy, Honorary Moderator (javascript:void(0)) posted February 25, 2010 05:10 PM
Show Post (javascript:void(0);)
Hi
Do you think all the three sentences are acceptable?
(1) We hung the portraits on the wall.
(2) We looked at the portraits on the wall.
(3) We had a family room with the portraits on the wall.
Thank you in advance
Seiichi MYOGA
What I am struggling to do is come up with a triplet of sentences in which "on the wall" behaves differently. I have a couple of things to ask if they work.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: Seiichi Myoga (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/personal?x_myspace_page=profile&u=249101991), February 24, 2010 03:59 AM
Amy, Honorary Moderator (javascript:void(0))
Member
Location: USA
(http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=9281039554)
Posts: 369 (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=9281039554)
(http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/340600179/m/256102953?r=322104953#322104953)Posted February 24, 2010 08:01 AM (javascript:void(0);) (javascript:void(0);) (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=ma&m=322104953&t=256102953&f=340600179)
Hi Seiichi
I would use just "portraits" (rather than "the portraits") in sentence 3. Otherwise, the sentences seem fine to me.
Ignored post by Amy, Honorary Moderator (javascript:void(0)) posted February 24, 2010 08:01 AM
Show Post (javascript:void(0);)
Okaasan, Contributor (javascript:void(0))
Member
Location: Egypt
(http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=937108741)
Posts: 472 (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=937108741)
(http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/340600179/m/256102953?r=958105953#958105953)Posted February 24, 2010 12:54 PM (javascript:void(0);) (javascript:void(0);) (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=ma&m=958105953&t=256102953&f=340600179)
That's exactly what I was going to say, Amy, about "the" in sentence 3.
I don't see any difference with "on the wall."
This message has been edited. Last edited by: Okaasan, Contributor (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/personal?x_myspace_page=profile&u=937108741), February 24, 2010 12:54 PM
Ignored post by Okaasan, Contributor (javascript:void(0)) posted February 24, 2010 12:54 PM
Show Post (javascript:void(0);)
Mehrdad, Contributor (javascript:void(0))
Member
Location: Tehran, Iran
(http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=43410995)
Posts: 896 (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=43410995)
(http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/340600179/m/256102953?r=796107953#796107953)Posted February 24, 2010 05:50 PM (javascript:void(0);) (javascript:void(0);) (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=ma&m=796107953&t=256102953&f=340600179)
The differences are:
(1) Here "on the wall" is acting as an adverb.
(2) Here "on the wall" is modifying "the portraits," so it's got a rather adjectival role.
(3) Here "on the wall" is part of a prepositional phrase ("with portraits on the wall"). It is this phrase that modifies "room." I find "on the wall" in (3) very close to the one in (2).
Ignored post by Mehrdad, Contributor (javascript:void(0)) posted February 24, 2010 05:50 PM
Show Post (javascript:void(0);)
Seiichi Myoga (javascript:void(0))
Member
[URL="http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=249101991"]Posts: 94 (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=249101991)
(http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/340600179/m/256102953?r=695100063#695100063)Posted February 25, 2010 01:38 AM (javascript:void(0);) (javascript:void(0);) (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=ma&m=695100063&t=256102953&f=340600179)
Dear all,
I appreciate your help and comments.
quote:
(1) We hung the portraits on the wall.
(2) We looked at the portraits on the wall.
(4) We had a family room with portraits on the wall.
All the three have something in common: the entailment (the logical conclusion you could draw) is "(The) portraits were on the wall."
I have two questions to ask.
The first is about (2) and (4).
I think (2) and (4) mean the same as (5a) and (5b) respectively, both of which have "hanging" inserted in between "portraits" and "on."
(5) a. We looked at the portraits hanging on the wall.
b. We had a family room with portraits hanging on the wall.
#1 Am I right?
The second one relates to (2).
I think there is no significant difference in meaning between (2) and (6).
(6) We looked at the portraits that were on the wall.
#2 Am I right on the track?
Thank you in advance
Seiichi MYOGA
This message has been edited. Last edited by: Seiichi Myoga (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/personal?x_myspace_page=profile&u=249101991), February 25, 2010 01:45 AM
Ignored post by Seiichi Myoga (javascript:void(0)) posted February 25, 2010 01:38 AM
Show Post (javascript:void(0);)
Okaasan, Contributor (javascript:void(0))
Member
Location: Egypt
(http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=937108741)
Posts: 472 (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=userposts&sortType=1&u=937108741)
(http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/340600179/m/256102953?r=253103063#253103063)Posted February 25, 2010 08:16 AM (javascript:void(0);) (javascript:void(0);) (http://thegrammarexchange.infopop.cc/eve/forums?a=ma&m=253103063&t=256102953&f=340600179)
Thanks, Mehrdad, for clarifying about the differences. I was thinking about meaning -- and I guess not very deeply.
Seiichi, I think you're right about #1 and #2.